Episode Transcript
[00:00:01] Speaker A: Welcome to Energy in the Room. I'm Katie. Join me as I sit down with the inspiring voices shaping our energy future. Together, we'll share real stories, big challenges and honest advice from those leading the transition. Let's dive in.
[00:00:15] Speaker B: Super excited to have our first guest, Sabu Whitelaw, who is general Manager of Energy Services at Lamia. So thanks so much for joining us today.
[00:00:26] Speaker C: Thank you for having me, Jill and Katie.
[00:00:27] Speaker B: No worries. So, way of introductions, I'm Jill Ryder, founder of Precision and then now in Venova, which is experts in renewables and energy recruitment.
[00:00:41] Speaker A: I'm Katie Nicholas. I am principal consultant at Venova.
I cover all things development in the renewable space.
[00:00:50] Speaker B: So maybe we could kick off just with a bit of an introduction from yourself and perhaps you could explain a bit more about your role and what, what you get up to day to day.
[00:00:59] Speaker C: Yeah, sure.
So, as you've already said, I'm the GM of energy services. It's a bit of a mouthful. What does that actually mean?
So Lumia is the number one connector of renewable energy into the national electricity market. So we connect a lot of generators, solar, wind, offshore wind, batteries. And so I'm really proud to be part of that energy transition. We are, we need a lot more of these renewable energy coming onto the grid and really helping through the transition that's happening at the moment.
[00:01:33] Speaker B: So how did you actually get into that role?
[00:01:36] Speaker C: Yeah, my career has been a lot of sidesteps and I was saying this to Katie the other day. I'm an accountant by trade, so I started as an accountant at KPMG in banking. So all my clients were financial services investment funds, which was a great foundation. You know, I did an international second man. I was fantastic.
Eventually.
[00:01:59] Speaker A: Where did you go?
[00:02:00] Speaker C: San Francisco for two and a half years.
[00:02:01] Speaker B: Oh, wow.
[00:02:02] Speaker C: It was, it was amazing. I was, you know, it was a good time. I was 25 years old.
I lived the life and it was fantastic. Gave me a different view of culture, how working in another country was like. So that was great.
After I had kids, I was like, well, I want to, I want to do something that was, that was, I felt, was more, more about the world or bigger than just me. I made my role. So I ended up in energy, just doing accounting. I'm a finance.
[00:02:36] Speaker B: Right.
[00:02:36] Speaker C: Manager at an account at one of the energy companies. And that gave me the passion. I came in as carbon tax had just been taken away and I firsthand saw the impact of carbon tax. The coal generators were not being used, gas had come down because it was, was disincent they were incentivized not to be used. And when it got taken away, I saw the impact of coal generation going through the roof. And at that stage I was like, okay, yeah, there is a way to move the needle. I was really disappointed to see that go. But then it's, you know, that, that gave me the passion to. This is where I want to be. Yeah. And it was so complicated. I would go home, like, I'll turn this light on and it just. The light turns on and everything that happens is so much more complicated.
[00:03:25] Speaker B: And.
[00:03:25] Speaker C: The electrons just get there.
[00:03:28] Speaker A: What. Is there something in your career that you can think of that's like a light bulb moment of like, yeah, I should be proud of that and I should brag about that.
[00:03:38] Speaker C: I don't know if I have a moment where I.
Maybe I do and I don't remember it. Yeah.
[00:03:44] Speaker B: Hard to like focus, isn't it? Yeah.
[00:03:48] Speaker C: My look back, I probably have been part a lot of projects in renewable energy, either getting government funding for them or internally getting the board across the line on business cases or a strategic direction. So I have a hand in a lot of those projects. Getting financial clothes are getting to where they are today and some of them have been huge. So it's.
[00:04:12] Speaker B: Yeah, right.
[00:04:13] Speaker C: It's, you know, I know it's a take. It takes a team of people doing them. But I think it's. I'm proud of getting to the point where, you know, there were an idea thought, but then they actually come to fruition. So it's really nice to be able to go somewhere and say, oh, I played a pretty big role in that big battery over there.
[00:04:29] Speaker B: Yeah, definitely.
[00:04:30] Speaker C: Yeah. So it does make me proud to be part of that. Yeah.
[00:04:33] Speaker B: Yeah, for sure.
Does your family actually know what you do then?
If we ask them?
[00:04:38] Speaker C: That's a question I did read and I asked.
[00:04:40] Speaker B: If we asked them, what would they. How many kids you got?
[00:04:44] Speaker C: I've got a 14 year old and I've got an 11 year old.
[00:04:46] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:04:47] Speaker C: 11 year old was like, don't you just run around telling people what to do?
[00:04:52] Speaker B: That sounds very similar that you do to them.
You know what, that sounds so similar to what my kids say, well, what do you do? And then they actually think one of our colleagues is my boss as well. Joel. Like they like, Joel's the boss because I speak to him on the phone all the time. So. Yeah, that's funny.
[00:05:11] Speaker C: Yeah, it's funny what they pick up. My 14 year old had a good guy. He went into the. You do large scale Grid batteries. I was like, okay. You're kind of on charge.
My husband still goes to. Oh, you're an accountant?
Oh, no.
By trade. Not anymore.
[00:05:30] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:05:30] Speaker C: Right.
[00:05:31] Speaker A: Do you think that your kids will follow in your footsteps and go into the renewables? It's too early to tell.
[00:05:36] Speaker C: They talk about it. Yeah, no, I talk about it a lot, so I would love for them to go into it. I'm really passionate about it, and I do it for them. Like, it's, you know, it's the next generation.
[00:05:47] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:05:49] Speaker C: I won't be around. Yeah, I hope so. I hope my daughter will. My son's very much a pilot.
[00:05:54] Speaker B: All right.
[00:05:54] Speaker C: It's a pilot since he was three years old. And he hasn't changed his mind.
[00:05:58] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. So would you say at home, then, because of your role, you're kind of more environmentally aware as well? Does that come out at home and how.
[00:06:10] Speaker C: I probably have a background. I'm Pakistani, so I've always grown up a little bit frugal, I'd say. But it's because I've seen poverty and all that. So if. When I have that land, I don't like waste. Like, I won't. I will not throw out food. Like, I will make little bits and we don't throw out food.
I like not to have waste. Like, if I don't want to have to put rubbish out, I don't get plastic bags for my fruit and stuff. So I've never done that. It's just more things I have to throw out. I don't. I rent a lot of dresses. If I have to go somewhere, I just. I always have. I just. I don't want to sit there.
So the kids do see that, and it's.
They think it's because I'm frugal, but I think it's because I'm sustainable being.
[00:06:55] Speaker A: A senior woman in the industry. We spoke about it the other day on the phone and I guess, like, underrepresentation for women in senior leadership in our industry.
Guess I'm asking you to pinpoint something again. But, like, have there been challenges that you faced and. And if so, like.
[00:07:15] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:07:15] Speaker A: What can you kind of tell us about the learnings from it?
[00:07:18] Speaker C: Yeah, I think there are a lot of challenges.
I think over the years, I've been overlooked in favor of males a lot. I think when I think back, it's one of those.
[00:07:29] Speaker B: It's.
[00:07:30] Speaker C: It feels like it's demoralizing at the time, but I think I've been able to pivot to change the mindset to this is what I want to do. I still want to be aligned to my values of, you know, I want to be true to myself. I want to be authentic. So then if that didn't feel right or that organization or that role, I've pivoted quickly.
I do try to mentor a lot of females outside the industry to try to get them in. Yeah. Somehow people who have soft skills or you know, project management can, can come into.
[00:08:05] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:08:07] Speaker C: Into the industry. There's a lot of need for marketing and you know, a lot of stakeholder engagement type roles.
I, I don't know if I have a solution. I kind of navigate it on a daily basis and some, some spaces I feel are safe to be able to speak up and I do find living is quite good.
I, I do feel comfortable challenging the norms.
But then there are where, you know, I can't in the, in the regulatory space and I just struggle through how I do that.
Yeah.
[00:08:39] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:08:39] Speaker A: I don't think there really is like one particular solution, but I think. Yeah, it all starts from like just talking about it and, and I think. Yeah. Like mentoring. I think you mentioned. We spoke about mentoring yesterday, didn't we? About. Yeah, I think that's just, just having like a safe space to talk about it and encourage and just talk about things.
[00:09:00] Speaker C: Do you feel that males also have a role to play in terms of allyship? Like it's really important when I, you know, in the, the meetings that I have been able to be forthright is where I know I've got a, an ally sitting next to me.
[00:09:16] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Where. Yeah, I think that's so important where you feel supported even if it's just one person in a room.
[00:09:22] Speaker C: Exactly.
[00:09:23] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:09:25] Speaker C: I see. When we need more male doing that for females to get the senior females.
[00:09:30] Speaker B: Yeah. In and talking, is it like what is the female to male? Do you like spread in the renewable space? Is it again quite male dominated?
[00:09:44] Speaker C: Is it's really male dominated especially in space in transgrid Lumia. Right. So we have a commercial arm so we not too bad but transcript is very project delivery focus out in the field and it's actually I think that don't do too badly but it's still 40, 60 and there's a lot of internships for females that do it but then they drop out. They've got to live out middle of nowhere.
[00:10:06] Speaker B: Yeah. Okay.
[00:10:07] Speaker C: It is hard work.
We do find a lot more females in the office roles.
[00:10:14] Speaker B: Right.
[00:10:15] Speaker C: But it would be good to encourage more project management, more engineering field roles.
[00:10:20] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
[00:10:20] Speaker C: But that's just not coming through in the universities.
[00:10:24] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
[00:10:25] Speaker A: When you say, like, did you just say internships? You like, what do they look like? Are they specifically around, like, women in the. Like on the construction sites and stuff?
[00:10:36] Speaker C: Yeah, there are. And they're apprenticeships too, so. And they are only for. I think they're offered to a lot of females and Transit actually does a lot of work with encouraging females into that space and then they're out there doing the same thing. And some of them are really good. Like the ones that have come up through the ranks are amazing. They have the deal well with the landowners, the people that people aspect of this whole transition.
[00:11:02] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:11:03] Speaker C: Where we are trying to negotiate putting very large infrastructure in the middle of nowhere. And women just tend to be more empathetic and can get people over the line in a more human way.
[00:11:18] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Makes sense. Have you got any kind of sort of top tips for women wanting to get into that renewables side of things? Is there any advice that you might give them?
[00:11:34] Speaker C: Yeah, I think you need to network. I think there's a lot of joining women in energy. Yeah, there's quite a few and those.
[00:11:44] Speaker B: Out there now, isn't there?
[00:11:45] Speaker C: And I go to a lot of them.
[00:11:47] Speaker B: How do you find those meetups organizations?
[00:11:51] Speaker C: They can be draining.
[00:11:52] Speaker B: Can it?
[00:11:53] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:11:55] Speaker B: Are they women specifically?
[00:11:56] Speaker C: Yeah, I like the women's one because especially the younger generation, they've got the energy. You want that to come through.
If I think, if it's earlier in their career, try go down the STEM path at universities.
[00:12:11] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:12:11] Speaker C: And if you're already in the field, you know, try using the soft skills, like I'm an accountant and I'm in. So there's plenty of roles.
There is.
There is a will, like you can move through the network and I think it does require a lot of sidestepping. I feel like it's not always up, up, up. You just gotta do your time. Um, and maybe it's an inner role you maybe don't love, but once you've got in there, you got to get from it.
[00:12:40] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:12:41] Speaker C: The opportunities are just. There's so many ones you're in.
[00:12:44] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:12:44] Speaker A: I was going to say about like on the recruitment side of things and interviewing.
Have you got any, like, funny stories about, like, either being in an interview yourself and like, absolutely fluffing it, or interviewing someone and thinking, oh, my God, get me out of here, or anything like that?
[00:13:05] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, many, many. Yeah, yeah.
[00:13:08] Speaker B: When you're dealing with people.
[00:13:10] Speaker C: Oh, yeah, yeah. People are fun.
Yeah. We've had so many where people, you know, you read a resume, it's like, oh, okay, sounds amazing. And then they go up and they literally cannot even explain the resume.
[00:13:21] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:13:21] Speaker C: It's like, how. What did you do in this job? Oh, a lot.
Just words.
[00:13:27] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:13:27] Speaker C: And it was very substantial. It's funny when you're cutting it short, it's like, okay, I'm not wanna waste your time. My time. What's the shortest interview you got in 10 minutes? I was like, yeah, we're done. I read it. Yeah.
[00:13:38] Speaker B: Well, it's quite good to be able to call it out and not waste your time.
[00:13:41] Speaker C: Yeah. We were like, okay, this is. And there was actually my colleague who was like, yeah, I. I think we. We don't have any more questions. I was like, yeah, this is. This has been great.
[00:13:50] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:13:51] Speaker C: We. We've got to move on to our next one.
[00:13:54] Speaker A: That shows the importance of prepping for an interview and just getting your facts straight on like the basics of what.
[00:14:00] Speaker C: And they didn't know what we did, which was like, okay, well this is. Yeah, this is not going anywhere.
Yeah, pull it up in front of you.
[00:14:08] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:14:10] Speaker C: But somewhere I've had some really good ones too. We, an organization I worked at, we were really trying to get females in. So we had to justify for every role. We have to justify when we didn't. When our preferred candidate was not a female.
[00:14:24] Speaker B: Oh, wow.
[00:14:24] Speaker C: Okay. And I really like that because it's.
[00:14:26] Speaker B: Almost forced us to really think about the decision.
[00:14:30] Speaker C: Yeah. And it really did force us because it was like, you'd go to this. Confirmation biases, all these sorts of biases we have in our heads.
[00:14:37] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:14:37] Speaker C: And we go, this person's my life, like me. It's like, we'll go this way. But then it was really assess why we were saying no to a female. And it almost went the other way. We were just saying yes to females after a while and the male started complaining about it.
[00:14:51] Speaker A: You have to have the best person for the job at the end of the day.
[00:14:54] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:14:57] Speaker B: We've actually had a real recent challenge, I'd say, around hiring women.
And it's really been. Because it's quite hard to recruit in our industry. We actually use recruiters ourselves as well, bizarrely.
And we've just had like a flurry of men that have been really great candidates. And it's not where we can pick out of four or five people. It is, you know, you find a candidate and they're good and then amazing. You hire them.
[00:15:32] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:15:33] Speaker B: But then it has kind of come to a point where we're like, oh, geez, there's actually like loads of men and it is like, what do you do? But.
[00:15:44] Speaker A: And we don't have, like, set office days of what days you can work from home and what days you can be in the office. So there are times when the women that are in the team are working from home and I'll perhaps be the only one in the Office sat with 10, 12 men.
Which, like you, don't. You. Obviously you don't notice it because the guys are great, but it's more so when you're sat in the meeting room and it's very loud. Bloody culture, which I don't know how to articulate it.
The culture here is amazing, but you'd really notice it when you're in one room. And I'm not a quiet person, but.
[00:16:25] Speaker C: I go quiet sometimes.
[00:16:27] Speaker B: Yeah. We've had a lot of conversations around what we can do to try and get more women on board.
And it is a tough one.
I don't actually know the answer.
[00:16:38] Speaker A: With the process you were doing with the interviews and justifying.
[00:16:42] Speaker C: It was really. It actually was more successful than anything I've seen since.
[00:16:47] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:16:48] Speaker C: And it was a female cfo. She was very.
She was firm. That's how she wanted everyone to think about.
I haven't seen anything else work better.
I think the other one that is. That does maybe work is if you've got a female as an interviewee, even if you're interviewing male.
[00:17:08] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:17:09] Speaker C: Just to get that lens. But if you're not getting applicants, I mean, that's just. We. We have pretty much the same. In renewable energy. Like, if we were trying to recruit, we often don't get.
[00:17:18] Speaker B: Yeah. You don't have a. You don't have anyone to a female to compare.
[00:17:22] Speaker C: Can't try to plug anywhere.
[00:17:24] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. So I guess it does start from kind of more of a holistic view and, like, getting girls into STEM subjects.
[00:17:33] Speaker C: Totally. Networking, I do find is good for that. So you might talk to a couple of talented females and they're like, I've been thinking about it, but often they don't have the confidence.
[00:17:42] Speaker B: That's right.
[00:17:43] Speaker C: To jump to another. Something unknown.
[00:17:45] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:17:46] Speaker C: And if they meet somebody, I can often go, let's have a chat. Yeah, those are. Those are useful. But other than that, like, we'll have to be hanging out at universities.
[00:17:56] Speaker B: Yeah. Hanging around.
We did talk about.
Yeah, we did talk about. Which we are going to do is like head on. Just women. So just like Target a targeted kind of campaign and have women interview early on as well or before someone like me make the approach as opposed to, like, my counterpart who's male even.
[00:18:24] Speaker C: I find that I would probably be more. If I was looking more receptive to a female, because I do think males kind of push you into a path as recruiters that sometimes, like, well, I.
[00:18:36] Speaker B: Want to go, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's kind of a bit more, I suppose. Softer approach.
[00:18:43] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah. That's your next role, isn't it?
[00:18:47] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:18:47] Speaker A: I think in general, recruiters typically tend to have a reputation which is obviously more negative than positive in that sense. When it comes to being pushy.
[00:18:59] Speaker B: What's the best. What's the best sort of work incentive, social thing that you've been on or that you might have organized?
[00:19:10] Speaker C: I like the volunteering one. So I really like.
We've done, like, Oz Harvest. Fair share. Love those ones.
We did one where we had to make a prosthetic arm.
Wow. And it's a team of three, and it's like, you've got a. It's a whole tool kit that it comes with, and you. And the meters do it with our left hand. And it was so difficult, but it's so rewarding. It took us a couple of hours to put it all together, and it was like, goes on to the arm.
I love that it goes to its nominated person somewhere in the world.
And we wrote letters to this person, and then they get a picture back when they get it and they're using it. Like, it's really impactful.
[00:19:54] Speaker A: I hope they check it thoroughly before they send.
[00:19:56] Speaker C: Yeah. They.
Hardly screw a thing in.
[00:20:05] Speaker B: You don't want to be getting a defect one, do you?
[00:20:07] Speaker C: Someone's not very good at doing it.
[00:20:09] Speaker B: No.
[00:20:09] Speaker C: It went to multiple QCs. I was like, okay, good. So this is just. Just a test.
[00:20:14] Speaker A: A thumb for the ring finger.
[00:20:16] Speaker C: Oh, when you fell off.
I love those. I think they're just. They.
[00:20:23] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:20:23] Speaker C: They have such a big.
They stay.
[00:20:26] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:20:26] Speaker C: With you much longer, I think. Yeah.
[00:20:28] Speaker A: Like, even I say little things, but they're not little things. Like litter picking. Like, going. We used to do that a lot at my old company in London. Just go out for the day and litter pick in the river or down the park.
[00:20:42] Speaker C: We had one where it was. We just had to umpire. Oh. We had to facilitate a kid's soccer game. Like, they were just underprivileged kids, and they just needed somebody to umpire and play with them. Like, done.
And they were so. It was so fun. Like you're out there. The kids are getting. They don't have anybody to play with. We brought balls. And the happiest kids in the world. Like, this is it.
[00:21:02] Speaker B: This is.
[00:21:03] Speaker C: This makes it all worthwhile.
[00:21:04] Speaker B: Yeah.
What's the best one you flown.
We've done the things which were good though, like just making sandwiches for underprivileged kids and things like that. We've done that. And I do agree it's a lot more long lasting than going. Getting drunk in the pub for the team as well. Like the, the. The kind of coming together, the camaraderie and then.
Yeah. People obviously get a kick out of like doing something for someone else and feeling like they're helping, don't they?
[00:21:38] Speaker C: Totally. I wrote in one of them, I wrote a book. Like there's a organization that does. It's called Library for All.
And they, they're finding that a lot of the underprivileged countries are developing nations. They have storytelling culture, but they don't have a reading culture.
So the parents will sing and do stories, but they don't get into the reading. They don't teach their kids to read. So. But they all have phones and iPads, so they, they were going around organizations just writing little stories, digital stories that you could. That they would have on the iPads. So as a team, we wrote a story which was. Which is awesome. I never. And I go to Amazon. It's there. It's like anyone can download that. It was just a kid's book. Hardest thing I've ever done. Because the ladies, they kind of guide you through the book writing process and it's so complicated really. So the first four words that you write are the most important. Like you've got to hook them in. Yeah. Okay.
[00:22:35] Speaker A: And what we took us forward.
[00:22:36] Speaker C: I can't remember now, but it was like, it took me so long. We were like, it's. There should be. It can't be. Once upon a time, something else.
[00:22:43] Speaker A: Yeah.
Sounds like you've worked like for some really good employers that are doing a lot of extracurriculars.
[00:22:51] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, that was with Origin Energy and they have unlimited volunteering.
Yeah.
[00:22:58] Speaker B: Right.
[00:22:59] Speaker C: So.
And I'm one of those, like, okay, great, I'll go do it. Yeah. And every manager I've had were very supportive. It's like, all right, let's try. And then I got involved in with the foundation and I became.
We did loads of. To do little solar buddy lights. Have you ever done those? Like you have them sent out to you and you Kind of put this little light together. It's a solar light that kids wear in.
In Africa or in Asia. It's so it has solar panel on one side and it's a bright LED light on the. On the other side is there. A lot of them are still kerosene basically studying under kerosene lights and they're getting lung and respiratory issues. So that replaces that and it just gets sent out to you and my kids. I've done it with my kids and you just put it together and you send it off and they QC it thankfully everything because it's got a battery and it's like.
[00:23:50] Speaker B: Yeah, right.
[00:23:50] Speaker A: So if you had an audience with our.
You had an audience with Alpha News, what would you like to talk to him about?
[00:24:01] Speaker C: I think I would talk to him about climate action, renewable energy and the how we use our superpower. I feel like Australia superpower is renewable energy. We've got sun, we've got wind.
We are leading in the energy storage in the world. So how do we make it easier for more of these technologies to come online? Even newer technologies and all those eight hour storage solutions. There's a whole lot of technologies that we should be fast tracking to come online.
How do we do that and then how. And I think the other one for me probably even in renewable energy but outside is the participation of indigenous in our industry on top of the females. I think we really do that. They have a lot, a lot of knowledge in how they've learned how to make sure that we look after the environment. How can we learn from that? How do we also we bring them on the journey, what role they play in this energy transition.
And we do find some of them are really interested and again it's a similar conversation to females. How do we encourage them? How do we help them bring them.
[00:25:15] Speaker B: To the table and bring them to the party.
[00:25:18] Speaker C: Absolutely, yeah. And I would. I feel like that's a role government needs to play. It's just.
[00:25:23] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:25:24] Speaker C: Industries probably will try but may not get there as fast as you know.
[00:25:31] Speaker B: You have a bit of something government led to what. What do you guys currently do on the indigenous front at the moment?
[00:25:38] Speaker C: So we've got a wrap reconciliation plan, stretch plan.
We do a lot of. Because we do a lot of delivery and transcript group. We end up trying to use that avenue as to get as many first nations contract as we can.
We also have done. I've had a couple of interns who've been indigenous which has been great just to get them in there were they're doing engineering degrees.
They came in, so we try to support that. Yeah. Through that lens.
[00:26:11] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:26:11] Speaker C: I think we can do more again. I don't. I don't come across a lot of them in the network, so maybe I'm not in the right network. I need to join those. How do we. How do we track them?
I do find the, you know, the interns were a really good way, so they then took that back to their communities and talked about it.
[00:26:32] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:26:33] Speaker C: It almost needs to come from them because they're such a community culture.
[00:26:37] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:26:38] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:26:39] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:26:39] Speaker C: Very good.
[00:26:40] Speaker B: Well, thank you so much. Really appreciate a little chat.
