Episode Transcript
[00:00:01] Speaker A: Welcome to Energy in the Room. I'm Katie. Join me as I sit down with the inspiring voices shaping our energy future. Together, we'll share real stories, big challenges, and honest advice from those leading the transition.
Let's dive in.
So today we are joined by the head of stakeholder relations at Voyager Renewables, Sarah Guilfoyle, AKA Gilly.
Welcome.
[00:00:31] Speaker B: Thank you so much, Katie.
[00:00:33] Speaker A: Lovely to have you.
Sarah's been in stakeholder and community relations and communications since 2005, and it was three years ago, roughly, that she transitioned into the world of renewable energy.
[00:00:47] Speaker B: I thought it. Katie, I know.
[00:00:49] Speaker A: Here we are.
And can you walk us through that journey? Like that is like, what drew you in? How are we here? Talk to us.
[00:00:59] Speaker B: That's a. That's a really good question. I guess it kind of frames up a lot of what I do and I guess the perspective that I bring to my role as head of stakeholder relations for Voyager Renewables. I am born and bred in a tiny little country town of about 1500 people called Claremont, which I refer to as the jewel in the crown of Australia.
Had a wonderful upbringing there, and I'm very proud of the fact that I come from a small town. And I think it's really anchored who I am in the world and the type of person that I want to be and the type of legacy that I want to leave. Having been off the land, we are off the land up there. We've got about five and a half thousand acres of beef cattle property, fattening block. But from there I went to boarding school and I actually rode full time out of school. So I was an athlete, which I.
[00:01:46] Speaker A: Think is another day.
[00:01:48] Speaker B: Sorry.
[00:01:48] Speaker A: Horse riding.
[00:01:49] Speaker B: I rode boats. Oh. But it's funny because my sister was actually a star equestrian and we used to joke about how we both rode on weekends.
I did ride a lot. I rode a lot of horses growing up, mustering on our cattle property. But no, I rode boats, which was weird because I actually made the Australian team when Central Queensland was in crippling drought. So it's quite ironic that that is the way my life went. But I think the teamwork has put me in really good stead. I think the discipline's put me in really good stead. The long days, the commitment, the eye on the prize, celebrating the short wins, but really keeping an eye on the prize for the big picture, long picture, was a real pleasure and a real foundation to, I guess who I am today.
So I did that full time out of school, and then I went to college in America on A rowing scholarship. So I did that for four years in Florida. Then I went and worked on a ranch in Texas for a year. So in pure oil and gas country, whilst working on the land, it was the best of all worlds. There are a few renewable farms up there, wind turbines starting up, not as many as there were a couple of years ago. And I went back to the same ranch and turbines, turbines everywhere.
So it's been really interesting to see the evolution of that just in that home patch. But when I came back from America having started a Not For Profit in America, I started not for Profit with three students that I went to university with and we recruited Alicia Keys onto our board of directors. And that was a very eye opening situation and thinking, here I am just a girl from, I'm just Gilly from Claremont, I'm just an outback girl and I'm running a press conference for Alicia Keys for the debut of our not for profit.
[00:03:30] Speaker A: So New York, Alicia.
[00:03:33] Speaker B: Yes. I won't be singing today, Katie, but yes, as in New York, as in this girl is on fire. Absolutely for sure that Alicia Keys, and she is a phenomenal human. And she used to say to me, gilly, I just really like talking to you because you talk to me like I'm a normal human. And I just say, and at that stage she'd won more Grammys than anybody else. And I say, well, just because you've won more Grammys than anybody else doesn't make you more or less. You're, you're absolutely human. So I think that that was probably another one of the little ticks that I got to really sort of steer me in the direction of kind of being able to just talk to people.
[00:04:12] Speaker A: How you speak to people.
[00:04:13] Speaker B: Yeah, how you speak to people. So put me, put me in the boardroom, put me, you know, put me in Parliament House, put me out in the community talking to a landowner. I'm, I'm equally comfortable. I came home from the States and, and I started my own consultancy and I worked in mining and agriculture for about 15 years. Then I went to work for one of Australia's largest family run agribusinesses, but it was backed by one of Canada's largest public pension funds. That was a great role. I left that role to challenge myself to do something a bit different. And I moved to New South Wales from Queensland, very controversial, but moved down to work for New South Wales Health Infrastructure. So that really began my career and thought and interest and connection to real legacy based infrastructure. And I think there's a connection to having been from the bush where just on the weekend I was in Central Queensland with my dad and we're driving around and he's like, that's Sarah's gate and that's Sarah's fence that she built when I was home in Covid during the lockdown and things like that. So there's that real legacy of being able to see the infrastructure and the good that you create in the world and to be more in the space of social infrastructure is absolutely fantastic. So I built hospitals for a bit, then I worked on the upgrade of a train station and then I was looking for something new, had a couple of contracts on the table. I was really excited about what was coming next. I got a phone call one day from a recruiter, or not a recruiter, from a HR person who was doing some recruiting work in Newcastle and said, we're looking for someone for this job, but I can't tell you anything about it until you've signed an NDA. And I have major fomo. So I was like, okay, get me.
[00:05:58] Speaker A: That piece of paper.
[00:06:00] Speaker B: Yeah. Where do I sign? As long as I'm not signing my life away, I will sign on the dotted line to have a chat and find out more. And they said, what do you know about renewables? And I said, I don't know a lot about renewables. And they said, what do you know about offshore wind? And I said, what?
What, like in the water?
Yeah. So anyway, and that is how I became the head of stakeholder relations and communications for OceanX Energy. Had the distinct pleasure of working for Andy Evans and Peter Scudd Dallas and CEO Emily Chavetti. Peter and Andy started off Patrolwind in Australia, the industry, so at the absolute genesis of it with Star of the south and it was an absolute honor and pleasure to be introduced to renewables and starting a whole new industry. So coming from the delivery end of state and nationally significant infrastructure where the conditions of approval had already been signed, the EIS had already been done and where 10, 15 years before that, actually defining what the industry is going to look like in the world was nothing short of a privilege. And the team that I did it with was one of the best I've ever worked with. And I'd do it any day of the week again and twice on Sundays. But coincidentally I am now I've switched over and following that wonderful run with offshore wind, I'm now, as I say, I've gone from the beef out to the reef and now I'm back to the beef. So now I have the pleasure of working for Voyager, which is backed by cip. So I've got some fantastic, fantastic, stable mates, continuing some beautiful relationships that I've had from offshore Wind now into that, and it's an absolute pleasure to work for them too. But the reason I wanted to go into a lot of detail, so I gave you a lot of detail on my journey there. But the interesting thing is that I think it really defines who I want to be in the world as a professional, because you have that lived experience.
So I've been the landholder that's been impacted by the mining company. I've been the mining company that's impacted the landholder. Same with oil and gas on all sides, you know, same with infrastructure on all sides. I've worked for the government, I've worked for the delivery private sector side. So I think I will never propose that I know exactly what someone is thinking or feeling, but I have a little bit of lived experience in being able to share some stories where maybe there's a little bit of a light in the darkness where they can see that maybe at least I've got a little bit of a depth of how.
[00:08:29] Speaker A: The STEM perspective, doesn't it?
[00:08:32] Speaker B: Like, context and perspective is absolutely everything when you work in stakeholder relations.
[00:08:37] Speaker A: I agree, absolutely. Well, I can totally see why you are where you are today. Like, you're an incredible person. You're clearly so passionate about what you do.
And I think what I want, what I wanted to hear from you was, obviously you've done that transit. It does make sense, your journey.
But I think there are a lot of people in infrastructure or whatever backgrounds who really want to get into renewables. I speak to a lot of people that speak to me about that and ask for my advice on how to break into the renewable space. So do you have any practical advice for those. Those people?
[00:09:14] Speaker B: Yeah, I think develop up your skills of resilience and patience. It's really a game of hurry up and wait. I think there will be absolutely more than enough work for everybody.
But it depends on what stage of the project those proponents are at and whether you're going to work for a consultancy or for a proponent or what element of renewables you want to get into.
I would say tenacity and resilience are some really cool skills that are going to carry you all the way through. If you don't have those, you're probably not going to survive in renewables anyway, because some days you get the green light, some days you get the orange light, some days you get the red light. But I think a really, really important part of trying to get into renewables is to network.
So there's a lot of transferable skills out there. We are an absolute sponge at the moment for good talent and I think that all sorts of skills are readily welcomed into the mix. So if you have an opportunity to get along to any sort of networking events, whether it's renewables in Newcastle or whether it's a Clean Energy Council event or Energy Fest, the wonderful conference meets festival that's coming up in a couple of weeks, or maybe not by the time you've taken this live, but there's any number of events you get along and I think it's all about networking and just having the tenacity and resilience to just keep on asking the question because the doors will open and there is more than enough opportunity for everybody in the mix because the energy transition will and does require a full scale assault.
[00:10:51] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. And that's definitely something I want to dig into a bit deeper with you.
And actually that is the advice that I give a lot of people is just speak, just speak to as many people as you can, learn from as many people as you can, meet as many people as you can, get. You know, I think even like setting up email alerts on when these events are going to be happening and just signing up to those mailers and just get in the know of the industry if you really want it.
[00:11:19] Speaker B: Absolutely. And I think another piece of advice I would give is understand the roles that are available. So, for example, offshore wind, which is, you know, facing its own challenges. Thank you. At the moment, the Star of the south released a fantastic jobs guide that gets you really intimately very quickly with what's available. I think one of the best things you can do going into a renewables career is to understand the actual depth of what is available, because there's not really any boundaries on what is what the nature of the work that's available or where those skills can be transferred in. So I would take off what you think you know about typical careers and actually, you know, work it out. When I was in grade 10 at careers day. Do you want to be a doctor? Do you want to be a lawyer? Do you want to be a policeman?
Yes. I did not know that I could be a GIS manager.
I'm not sure that's the job for me anyway. Certainly not a grid connection manager. But the depth of what is available might actually surprise you. So I think if you can even get a bit of an idea of sort of what kind of field or where your skills might trend fair best, then that's also going to help with your pitch in and your networking.
[00:12:33] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. Agreed. Yeah, yeah. No, somehow I didn't come out the womb screaming about recruitment.
I don't think it's talked about careers fairs either, but here we are.
So you are a stakeholder relations, community engagement professional and I think community engagement is a really hot topic at the moment with, especially with development projects.
[00:12:58] Speaker B: And so it should be.
[00:12:59] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. I was going to swear then. Absolutely.
What I want to gain your insights on are around the challenges and what your perspective on is of overcoming these.
What do you see as the biggest challenge in the industry right now with communities?
[00:13:21] Speaker B: I think first of all, we need to break down renewables. Not all renewables are created equal. So offshore wind is a challenge because it's a brand new industry, it's an emerging. It doesn't exist in Australia. You can't look at it, you can't see it.
And then there's other technologies like green gravity or wave generation. There's lots of different energy generations that come under the banner of renewables. For my perspective in the field that Voyager renewables work in, it is large scale wind, solar and battery storage systems. I think one of my, in my humble opinion, one of the biggest issues we have is the legacy that we are inheriting as an industry and also us as a, as a company. So I think rural and regional Australia has been at it for a number of years, making a lot of sacrifices and also having to be on the hook for a lot of energy generation in Australia. And that starts as early back as mining right through to renewables onshore has been around for a number of years now. So it's not a new industry, but back then it was heavily unregulated renewables then. So even the difference now between what the expectations of what the legislation defined that you needed to do, let alone what you should do as a good human, is a bit of an issue. So I'm going into communities that are damaged and broken and do not have, are not displaying community cohesion because they've been burned and they haven't been engaged with properly or educated or allowed to come on the journey with. And it's really hard to say, okay, I get that that's happened to you, but we're different and here's how.
So I think that sort of dovetails into what I think is probably one of the second biggest issues, which is a little bit controversial and it's a little bit Pie in the sky.
Optimistic. But that is, I believe that industry needs to be a little more united and accountable, which is very hard to do when you're in a very commercially aggressive and competitive environment.
But that is when you put your company and your projects first, ahead of the community. I think if we begin with the end in mind and really focus on the community, I think we could do some really cool things together to hold each other accountable as an industry and create some continuity to interface with the community. Really smart and sensitive way.
[00:15:54] Speaker A: Yeah. And I think I was gonna ask you, like, how do we balance the urgency of the energy transition and I guess, yeah, that commercial aggression from whether it's developers or investors. Sure. With genuine social license and the responsibilities there. But I think that's kind of answered that question.
[00:16:15] Speaker B: Yeah, to a certain extent, I think.
Absolutely. We're accountable to investors. So if it doesn't work, it doesn't work. So you have to be deliver.
Yeah, absolutely. But at what cost? And I think where the industry is starting to really clue on.
I absolutely am opposed to the term social license.
[00:16:37] Speaker A: Oh, really?
[00:16:37] Speaker B: Yes.
It doesn't gel well with me and I think it's something that's been a bit used and abused and I'm not sure if people really understand what it is that we need to do in the community. They just know that we need to be good citizens and you need that. But I think what's happening now is there's an absolute inherent understanding that the criticality of community cohesion and being a good citizen in that community and adding value and supporting financially or in other ways or legacy infrastructure. Enabling infrastructure is just as critical as finding a good wind resource or finding connection to grid, because we've seen it with projects that have been shut down because of a complete disengagement from certain communities. So I think that's great that communities have a lot of power, which again, is probably really controversial, but it's really about your approach and how you do it. I think it is possible, but it's hard. And as I say to people in our team all the time, the only way through this is to get really, really, really comfortable with being really, really, really uncomfortable.
Absolutely, yeah. It's not easy, it's very, very hard, but it's doable, I believe.
[00:17:52] Speaker A: And you keep answering all my questions before I ask them. I was gonna say, like, what advice would you give to those people that are working well, consultancy, developer, whoever that's on the ground in the communities, you know, sat in the kitchens of these landowners having a Cup of coffee. Like, what is your advice to them about how to build those relationships and do the right thing whilst also getting the results that you need?
[00:18:21] Speaker B: Yeah, I think two things.
It's very difficult to find a seasoned, internationally, globally experienced or Australia experienced or nationally experienced development director that's going to be living in Dubbo, for example, or Broken Hill for example. Not saying that they're not there, but it might be a little bit harder to find those resources. But as much as possible, as much as possible, you can resource from on the ground in those communities the better. So certainly my approach, my first approach always is to deploy from the ground in a stakeholder engagement point of view. That is one role that I would highly suggest. You would never fly in, fly out or drive in, drive out or do from the city. I think either you put someone in that community or you capacity build from within that community and add value to their skill sets. And not all projects are created equal. So I think there is a lot of opportunity to capacity build. The other thing I would really recommend, I'm not going to sit here and say, be honest, be genuine, be transparent.
If you're not doing that, then you shouldn't be out front facing with stakeholders, period. What I would actually say as a second point is I would go into every interaction whether, whether you're talking to the minister or a landholder community member, regardless of age or experience or whatever, remember to also wear your industry hat. Don't just be wearing your project hat, don't just be wearing your company hat because that person sees you as industry.
So I think that's something to be really mindful of. I think it's something we do really well at Voyager and I think we really all need to think a little bit bigger picture about who we are in the world when we're out on display.
[00:20:13] Speaker A: Yeah, interesting. Just going back, I think there's a bit of a mixed opinion as to whether community professionals should be living in the community.
I get quite mixed opinions on that.
But you're saying that you're. What your thoughts are like. Ideally that person should be in that, living in that area.
[00:20:37] Speaker B: I would think so, yeah. We already said it earlier on the podcast. Context and perspective is everything.
[00:20:42] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:20:42] Speaker B: And I think it's very.
Personally, I think it's a little condescending to be flitting in and out, but then again, to be fair, it also depends on your approach. It depends on your approach and your ability to build relationships. So you can't deploy an entire team until you've got a project up and running and you're in operations or construction, it's not viable necessarily to have. We're in remote and regional areas, so it's not always viable. However, I will note that not all communities are created equal and not all projects are created equal. So for example, we have a couple of projects where there's some great easy wins to capacity build, where I could just get a real goer from the community who knows everybody, she or he is on all of the committees. They're a real doer in the community, they're well respected, they'll be listened to and that person might get a great opportunity to have a run at a career and we could capacity build up. If they're missing gaps in not being able to put together a comms and engagement plan, then we can provide that. So I think that's a really easy win. But then there are other project areas that we operate in that are not so enabling of that and you might need someone who is more experienced and more potentially politically or media savvy and ready for some of the tough gigs. So it's not easy for that person either. So I think it's relative. I was just saying as a first principle, if you can source someone from. And not necessarily in the community or at least from the region.
[00:22:15] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:22:15] Speaker B: Someone who has an inherent understanding. I think that that should. That's a really solid first principle. If you can't do that, you can supplement in and out until you can.
[00:22:23] Speaker A: Yeah, brilliant. Agreed.
And going into like your opinion of that, we've spoken about talent and getting the right people in to help with the energy transition.
I do think that there's a general sentiment that hiring outside of industry or overseas candidates.
There is a bit of an old fashioned view of it, I would say.
I think that people are quite close minded when it comes to hiring from outside of industry.
I think your opinion is of we should do that and we need to do that. So what do you like? Why do you think that employers should be open, tiring outside of industry?
[00:23:12] Speaker B: Well, I find it really surprising that you're saying that maybe they aren't if they're a bit old fashioned because we simply don't have enough people with those skill sets. So you have to think outside the box on that. I had a business coach many years ago who said to me that some of your best solutions will come from outside an industry. So you might be working in agriculture, but you might get a great solution or idea from the manufacturing sector or something like that. So I believe cross pollination adds inherent value. Otherwise you're just getting high in your own supply and your own vacuum.
So I think that is really important and we absolutely need to do that because we need diversity of thought, but also we're not gonna have the numbers. So if you talk to World Australia, so the CEO of Weld Australia, Jeff Kridnan, will openly say, I don't know the number exactly. I think it's like 86,000 welders they're going to need in the next 10 years just to fulfill the infrastructure pipeline. That's not just renewable, that's the infrastructure pipeline, let alone everything else that you might need a welder for. That's just to deliver the existing and noted infrastructure pipeline. That's just welders. So we definitely need to get creative about how we're doing it. And we have all these proponents out there talking about these big workforce numbers and how we're going to create all of these jobs, but we need the people to do it. So I think however we do it to make sure we have the best people for the job on the ground, for industry, I think it's an all hands on deck situation and we should be open to any and all options.
[00:24:43] Speaker A: Yeah, definitely.
And so, like, what would you say to leaders that are hiring managers that are a bit hesitant about like taking someone from overseas? I think, I think also there's, there's a bit of hesitancy around like visa support and sponsorship. I don't really know of many businesses that actually do support that and I feel like if we could unlock, I wouldn't know the logistics of it or the commercial side of it, but if we could unlock employers like doing what they need to do to get procedures in place so that they can sponsor overseas candidates, I think we'd open up a world of opportunity for talent. But people just don't seem to want to do it.
[00:25:29] Speaker B: I guess it's a big investment and I think it probably talks to the lead time of a project. Right. So there's a long time between drinks with projects. So you've got a lot of gates that you need to get through before you have a viable project. And it's a significant, it is really a significant investment. I actually can't speak to the visa piece. That's not my area of expertise. I don't have a lot of experience with that in renewables in Australia. I have a fair bit of experience of that working in agriculture when you have people coming in on the farm work. Exactly, exactly. So I have a bit more experience with that, but what I will say is each to their own, you know, each to their own. You run your business however you want. But it is important to note also that there's a lot of people that are coming back to Australia that are Australians that have spent years living in America and living in Denmark who have just been waiting for an amazing opportunity to, for the offshore wind industry to get up in Australia or for, you know, more jobs to open up in the renewable energy space. So I think definitely explore whatever you can to make this energy transition happen should be considered or at least have the ideas run to ground. But also it is noted that there is a massive influx of significantly experienced talent who we've just opened the doors and we've given them the opportunity to return home, which I think is a really beautiful side benefit of this industry.
[00:27:00] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely.
And I know you've spoken before at conferences and events about women in industry, so obviously I want to talk about that from your perspective. What progress have we made in elevating women in the energy sector and where do you feel like we're still falling short? And any advice on what we can do to.
[00:27:27] Speaker B: It's an interesting one. I've just told you. I worked in mining and agriculture and sport for a number of years, so I've certainly done, I've done my time in male dominated industries. It brings me so much joy to see the emergence of women in renewables in all levels, in all sort of. Sorry, not in all levels, in all roles within renewables. So very proud of the fact that Voyager and Southly 10 and the broader CIP tent have a lot of female talent. And it's really obvious to see.
I am not a fan of the. If you can't see it, you can't be it because that's negative language. If you can see it, you can be it. So I'm very proud of the fact that we have some significant and emerging talent that are doing some amazing things from the.
That are females within our business. But I think more broadly, rather than sort of getting down into the gender diversity debate, I really think that what gets lost sometimes, it's actually about diversity of thought. So it's not about gender diversity. I just think we're too lazy to come up with a better term for diversity of thought. And I think what gets lost sometimes and what I really try to be aware of is do we have enough of all of the right people at the table to challenge each other? Because no one is gonna get out alive with this energy transition if we are not all holding each other accountable and making sure that all the questions get asked and everything's left on the table. No one's leaving a meeting wondering. So I think it's really important to have that blend of gender diversity, but also of age, of industry, of different sort of cultural background, all sorts of diversity. You need the diversity of thought because that is gonna give you your best solution. But with that said, what I will is I'm seeing a very significant female presence right across the renewable sector, which brings me joy.
Where I feel we can do significantly better is at that executive level and at the board level. And I think that is a lot of what sets the tone and that's where we are lacking in a bit of diversity of thought. If I could be so bold as to say that I would like to see. There's lots of. Of project directors and chief development officers and some CEOs and whatever there's. I don't think that there's enough representation at that C suite level up into that board level and again, more broadly across that diverse range of experience from inside and outside of industry, from male and female brains in there challenging each other. I think that is going to deliver the best result for the government, for the energy transition, for the private sector, and for every human that has a vested interest in keeping the lights on in Australia.
[00:30:20] Speaker A: I so agree.
Yeah. It's a diversity of thought and avoiding echo chambers in.
Yeah. Everything to do with running a business. And. Yeah, I think it's. I just think it's really difficult to, like, who.
Who is actually driving? Like, how do we actually put things in place to. To, like, elevate women in the leadership executive space? Like, is that just going to take time as people come through the ranks? Is it, like, should we, you know, where do we actually look at, like, how do we do it?
[00:30:57] Speaker B: That's a good question. Tony Robbins calls it the tyranny of how, if you want it badly enough, it'll happen. I think if we're sitting around and waiting for an invitation at the dinner table, it's not going to happen.
[00:31:07] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:31:07] Speaker B: I think we just need to keep.
[00:31:09] Speaker A: At it and keep talking about it.
[00:31:11] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:31:12] Speaker A: For sure.
[00:31:13] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:31:14] Speaker A: And just one more point on that. Like you said, like, what, day to day, what do you think businesses can be doing to support women around them and. Yeah, like, continue with professional development of women.
[00:31:34] Speaker B: I think equality in the workplace in general is really important. So you.
I'm a big, strong girl with a big, strong personality, so it's not hard for me to be Hurt in the workplace. It's ensuring that everybody else has an opportunity or is in a safe space. And you know, as part of the, as part of a leadership team, it's my obligation to provide a safe workplace for people where they feel that they are supported and they can grow and for real. And then you're doing that in a real way, I think.
But you know, that's very high level and that. And you should be doing that anyway. That's such a baseline elementary thing. It's almost embarrassing for me to say that the inclusivity in the workplace, I think probably in, particularly in renewables, I think where we could be offering better support for women is in two ways. One is thinking out the box a bit more to allow women back into the workforce who have families. So thinking really creative, creatively about, I don't know, job sharing or the time required or what can be done from home. Flexible working, but probably more so I think particularly when you don't always, you know, you have a lot of city based proponents working in rural and remote areas. I think it's really about safety, it's about physical health and safety and support out in the field. So we do a lot of remote work.
So you might be going out to a project where the. There might be 5, it might be 5, 500 km to the next toilet stop. Yeah, at a servo. It's things, it's thinking about things like that and first aid and are you comfortable and are we sending an 18 year old graduate out into the wilderness in Outback, you know, New South Wales? It's that kind of thing which sounds so elementary and, and simple but it's actually not and I think making film.
[00:33:19] Speaker A: So things and people forget about the little things and it all adds up.
[00:33:24] Speaker B: I think so too. And I think in particular that rural and remote piece.
Do you have the right systems and processes in place? Do you have the right safety tools? Do you have the right communication tools? Do you have the right systems and processes to create a check in or a health and safety system in how that works? If that person is feeling supported. Are you absolutely enforcing that? Everyone always has to travel in pairs at least. Have you done the sentiment mapping to make sure that if you get stuck or get a flat tire, that's probably not the best property to go into. Maybe you want to go into that property. So there's nuances in that in educating and supporting people so that they feel comfortable to go out. Because that's where we're doing our work out in the rural and regional areas.
[00:34:06] Speaker A: Yes. Yeah, yeah, definitely. Well, thank you for that. Is there anything else you wanted to touch upon?
All right. Amazing. Did you have any questions for me?
[00:34:14] Speaker B: No. Because you kind of answered them anyway.
When you're, like, open to hiring outside and people hesitant, I was going to say. Are they, though? But you're very simp. I don't know. How is that feeling? Really good. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:34:26] Speaker A: I'm very happy.
[00:34:28] Speaker B: She's hurt everybody.
[00:34:29] Speaker A: They should.
